Wang Guan: Star Cloud co-founder &COO chain
Song Xin: Bottos CEO
Wang Xiaoming: HPB CEO
The Sky:DACC foundation partner
Steve Li:NEM Chinese head
Fan Xuepeng: Nebula Institute responsible person
1, how to interpret the BCH bifurcation event? The BCH bifurcation can be avoided if hard?
(Wang Guan) a: this hard BCH bifurcation, is essentially a continuation of the BTC community before a hard bifurcated, and probably a similar bifurcation is not the last time. From another perspective, from the basic level, this is the BTC governance mechanism indeed flawed, both parties involved in the content from the point of view of how busy, can not hide itself in the bitcoin technology developers, system maintenance and system users (miners) (Chibidaigou) between about the future development direction of governance system the fundamental contradiction.
A good block chain system, should be a “holographic”:
The 1. information system, “holographic” refers to all parties involved in the access to information rights within the system and the opportunity is “holographic”. Each participant in the system, no matter what the role can be through an open and transparent manner, the information costs an average cost of the same block chain system.
2. the rules of “holographic” refers to the system of each participant in the game in the system of rights and opportunities are “holographic”, similarly, every participant in the system, no matter what the role can be through a unified rules in the game and to exert influence on the system, not because of different roles, compliance different rules and interests model, under certain conditions, different rules will lead to different “consensus”.
Give an example of the image, like a biological, despite thousands on thousands of different cells, but each cell of the DNA is the same, if an organism happens inside the different DNA mutations, we develop a life in different direction, then along with the time, the result is disastrous.
If we take each block chain system as a “electronic life”, is the life of the bifurcation hard “cancer”, both the BTC community, or now BCH SV& BCH ABC, if you can not solve the system from the fundamental rules of “holographic” problem, technology development, system maintenance (miners) and system users (Chibidaigou) each follow different rules in the “game”, so hard branch can not be avoided, not to anyone’s will.
(Song Xin) BCH: a rigid fork is difficult to avoid. This is between the two forces of the struggle. I don’t know which one is good or bad.
However, the bit, has a large number of BCH, and in the BCH community is very strong. As a Pre-IPO company, there are a lot of power through the bit, the BCH network has more potential applications to upgrade to the next version of the scene to obtain more profits. Bit, have many different ideas from other people in the community. The rigid fork will happen sooner or later.
(Kay) Yes, extended to all block chain, allowing the bad seeds to eliminate itself, we will have diverse ecosystems and technology.
(Wang Xiaoming) a: the data is more credible than words, let’s look at the data. According to the prospectus, bit, it reduces 15000 bitcoin holdings in the first quarter of this year, an increase of about 180000 BCH. The average transaction price of 0.082 BCH / BTC. If it is denominated in BTC, the loss is 27%. In addition, the mainland will continue to bit bitcoin conversion for 2 and 3 quarter BCH, can assume it basically no bitcoin. With the collapse of BCH BCH, investment losses are increasing!
In addition, the bit, IPO blocked, tens of millions of dollars in investment from Sequoia and IDG Capital, are now facing the pressure of investors.
From the beginning, CSW said it will at all costs, even if bitcoin fell to $1000, also must win this war. Assume that CSW is really Nakamoto So, it is said that there are 1 million bitcoin. So, in this battle, CSW has lost nearly $1 billion 500 million. Play this game at all costs threaten bitcoin will make everyone suffer, including his own. If he is not Nakamoto So, so his reputation would be affected because it causes damage to the community.
In fact, bitcoin $20 billion fell in 24 hours, causing panic and loss of community, it has proved that this is a zero sum game.
Really hard bifurcation has occurred many times, but if we have more communication and tolerance to the development route, so it is possible to avoid in the community.
(Kay) a: my team and I think BCH bifurcation is a positive evolution of block chain ecosystem.
From our point of view, the blockchain hard bifurcation are implementing a diversified encryption currency ecosystem, we should support it. The birth of BCH review, we can see that cannot and will not be dominated by a single community in this area. If the bitcoin network of more than half of the computing power owned by one or a group of miners, then it will lead to a crisis of public confidence blockchain. A centralized PoW consensus mechanism will inevitably lead to computing power. Rely on computing power to achieve fairness is just a fantasy. Therefore, even behind the BCH and bitcoin consensus has been split, the two currencies can and should exist in the same field, they contribute to a more balanced and diversified ecological system.
(Wang Guan) a: agree with the calculated stress problem in consensus mechanism that miners (pool) will developers and users of the system (such as the token holder) has more power. However, if at this stage that hard to ecological system bifurcation is positive or negative, it may be too early.
Answer: (Kay) in the BCH case, you may be right, but in the long term, we believe that the bifurcation is hard to the center of the open source community in common situation. And, to the center of the higher level, the development of ecological system is more creative.
(Wang Guan) a: hard bifurcation is a long-term pain point, but we should have a B option, to resolve the differences between the members of the community.
(Sky) a: here is my opinion on this issue: this event is two input events, it is worth reflecting on the bitcoin currency community events and encryption. Hard bifurcation is unavoidable, but can reconcile the negotiation; in a mature world, the solution to the problem is not just a blunt PK, more important is to communicate and compromise.
The 2. is whether all the common hard branching chain will face the problem? All the common chain project from the technical level and management level for what is the way to deal with hard bifurcation?
(Song Xin) a: hard bifurcation is not evil. The public is almost inevitable chain of it, because it is actually a method of network upgrade.
Public key chain consideration is to avoid ecological system rather than the technology of hard hard bifurcation, bifurcation. It is hard to reflect the bifurcation of the center.
I think DPOS is one of the good methods to deal with hard branch. So far, I have not seen any major public events in the DPOS bifurcation hard chain.
As a public chain team, more important task is to coordinate the community, to help users reach a new consensus set.
(Steve Li) a: I think NEM has and will certainly face hard bifurcation problems.
We have had this situation earlier this year. Some members of the community with a hard branch to avoid huge losses due to hacker attacks, but later, our community and proper communication and coordination, in the case of bifurcation is not hard to solve this problem.
On the other hand, NEM has developed a second-generation core engine “Catapult”, it is completely different from the first generation programming language. This means that the update will face hard main bifurcation problems. How to handle, depends on the wisdom of the community and the development team.
In general, I do not support the NEM bifurcation hard.
(Sky) a: hard bifurcation is essentially a node block chain system using different consensus mechanisms and protocols, each public chain exist bifurcation hard. We need to do more is to design a consensus from the perspective of game theory and incentive mechanism, in order to avoid hard branch and community division.
(Wang Guan) a.:
1) each public chain in the development process, as long as the development time is long enough, the public will have differences in community chain at the level of technological upgrading, governance mode, whether there will be a hard bifurcation, is mainly divided into many public chain how to deal with subsequent community development process, if the public chain on the basis set level plans and powerful tool to deal with these differences, so it is possible to avoid hard bifurcation.
2) star cloud chain how to deal with hard branch
Star Cloud chain founded in the beginning, to solve hard branching problem, as the key to the project design, NF (Nebula force) as one of the three core competence nebula, from the technical level and management level, upgrade and evolution for the blockchain system made a special design.
In the rules of governance “holographic” level, the POD consensus Nebula based on NR, with members of the community contribution to the entire Nebula community, let the real representative of the community interest contributors to participate in community governance determines the development direction of the community. Technology developers, system maintenance and system users (miners) (Chibidaigou) in the contribution level of the game system, and system interact comply with a unified rules”.
In the technical level, placing the core protocol component in the block Nebula chain, and automatic upgrade by NBRE design to achieve the core protocol. In the community governance decisions to reach a consensus, directly to the special trade form, will be sent after the upgrade of the agreement on the chain, to achieve a smooth upgrade; thus, from the underlying technology to ensure the “rules” on the chain, change the “governance rule” also on the chain, to ensure the rule of “holographic” continuity
(Kay) a: I think the blockchain hard bifurcation is quite a natural thing, because the mining is to the center of the miners blockchain version of competition. Therefore, almost all of the common chain have separated from the original branch chain in the chain. This happened in the bitcoin and workshop on ethernet. We will be open, allowing the hard fork, in order to reduce the monopoly power and diversify the entire ecosystem, so that we can deal with the uncertainty of the future.
The world is the traditional technology patents to protect their technology, and in the Blockchain world we embrace the “fork” and “fork”, it will promote the development of technology.
(Wang Xiaoming) a: as for the solutions, from a technical point of view, we should keep the safety of vision and forward-looking, reduce the technical problems cited the dispute;
Starting from the perspective of governance, give priority to common interests, respect the community’s suggestions and feedback, and to establish friendly communication mechanism, to minimize the objection.
3, miners and mine pool plays a very important role in the BCH bifurcation, this would be the norm in the subsequent block chain project? How to look at the effects of miners on holding money choose to bring the interests of users?
(Wang Guan) a: BTC is a block chain technology “too early”, is the first goal of survival. Therefore, Nakamoto in the design of the BTC system, the bias in the rules on system maintenance “(miners), and technology developers and users of the system (Chibidaigou) is excluded from the outside of the rules. Lead miners and mine pool has the absolute right to speak for the future direction of development of the system, but they do not pay attention to the development of BTC technology vision or users of the system (Chibidaigou) in long-term interests. This is not to say that the quality problem of the miners, or because they face the “rules of the game” leads to inconsistent and they hold the interests of users on the nature of the model.
(Song Xin) a: miners and mining pools is an important part of public chain. There are several main roles of public chain ecosystem: miners, developers, users and traders. The miners and developers is the most important current public chain ecosystem role.
With the emergence of more and more Dapps, users and traders will play an increasingly important role in public chain ecosystem in the future. The chain to ignore the user of the practice will be abandoned.
The miner’s choice is no right or wrong answers. If the user does not recognize the BCH value in the future, they can sell token. Therefore, I don’t think the miner’s choice will affect the interests of users.
Answer: by PoW (Kay) is in force to maintain consensus mechanism, miners like military, mining pool like the castle.
Block chain technology will open more than ever rapid development based on. It is unclear whether the PoW consensus will become the mainstream of the future. The role of miners and mining pool will eventually become history
(Wang Xiaoming) a: miners are key to creating hard bifurcation, this will become the norm in the future. The miners are also increasing, so their interests and the interests of the holders of other currencies consistent. However, this leads to some people’s interests.
4, there is no Fang Ethernet switch to POS, whether the conversion mechanism of the etheric Fang consensus will be a hard branch?
(Sky) answer: in my opinion, the Ethernet switch to POS Fang will bring hard fork, like ETC before.
(Song Xin) a: as we said above, the hard chain upgrade method is one of the only public bifurcation. The etheric Fang previously has had several hard bifurcation. Thank God V, the majority of members of the community as soon as a new version of the agreement. Therefore, although hard bifurcation is almost inevitable, but the key is to upgrade the system to reach a consensus as soon as possible.
As everyone knows, the etheric Fang plan in four phases: Frontier, Homestead, Metropolis and Serenity. The last upgrade from Metropolis to Serenity is POW upgrade to POS.
I think that this upgrade is likely to be completed successfully. As a result of：
1. upgrade has been ready for a long time, compared with hard bifurcation suddenly, community members ready;
2. V God has many followers in the community;
3. has a lot of technical preparations, such as the difficulty of the bomb and the fragmentation mechanism……
(Wang Xiaoming) I have been concerned about the progress of PoS, the program has more than the original plan was delayed for more than a year. There are at least two reasons:
Firstly, PoS technology itself is not mature, so when the etheric Fang turned to PoS, the community will focus on its technical maturity.
Secondly, PoS and PoW have a lot of supporters, which will directly lead to the formation of the two camps in the community, bring potential dangers to the hard branch. Because of these two reasons, when it becomes PoS, it is possible to see the hard square in the etheric bifurcation.
Answer: I think (Kay) from PoW to PoS is the right choice, because bitcoin has shown that large-scale PoW mining is not sustainable. However, this change may be very complex, because those people involved in mining may counter this change and refused to protect their interests. It may lead to the bifurcation between the old miner and a lot of hard ETH holders.
5, hard bifurcation will make community differentiation, but I think it also has some positive effects, such as consolidating and inspire new sub community. Could you give us your opinions on this? Do you think it is hard to project branch.
(Wang Guan) answer: objectively speaking, not all of the hard bifurcation is necessary, the branch does not necessarily have real large-scale incremental users moment occurred in the community, often occur in the most difficult moments in the community. We also see a lot of the bifurcation of the project, and ultimately the loss of the developers and users, to silence. Take BCH as an example, if every time it needs to upgrade the hard bifurcation cost would undoubtedly take in all the “user assets” for each upgrade experiment pay, it is inevitable to upgrade, the total failure, this way is too crazy. “”.
(Song Xin) answer: when the block chain system upgrade when major possible hard bifurcation. Hard bifurcation may new features or new improved performance. To a certain extent, it will be a new sub community bring many positive benefits.
(Steve Li) said: I think the occasional hard bifurcation can encourage the diversity of community projects, but it cost more than it benefits in three aspects:
1. rigid bifurcation will cause the split of the talents in the community. It will weaken the ability of technical development of each sub community.
2. rigid bifurcation caused by segregation of capital and liquidity, each community will face more severe price volatility, and reduce the price in the currency is usually caused by bifurcation at the end.
3. bifurcation will cause the community hard division, has been established in the public chain of Dapp will be forced to face between the two communities, to give up any party means a great loss to the user.
So. My advice: never hard to bifurcation.
Answer: (Kay) the loss or benefit depend on your character, not necessarily the whole ecological loss, on the contrary, a hard bifurcation may bring new benefits for ecosystem.
6, many PoW mechanism tokens from the point of view of mathematics is very perfect, but from the perspective of economics, there are some defects in the incentive level. Only when no economic incentive system, to ensure that all stakeholders’ incentive is the same, only in accordance with the security of the network distribution. (view)
(Wang Guan) answer: incentive is the core element of the block chain system, no incentive system does not have vitality, if we want to solve the incentive, incentive incentive problems of who, how. The final form of POW must not block chain consensus, other consensus will have the same completeness and the beauty of mathematics in the future. It is worth all the blocks of the joint efforts of the chain project under a holy grail.
7, to ask a question you think nebula, nebula Nebula mentioned in the white paper force (NF) can avoid the hard bifurcation?
Answer (Fan Xuepeng):
Nebulas Force (NF) provides the ability to update the blockchain protocol and intelligent contract. We are discussing the bifurcation hard actually refers to the block chain update protocol.
However, we think hard about bifurcation governance rather than technological upgrading. NF is used for technology upgrades, rather than for governance. If the hard bifurcation is inevitable, so NF can make hard bifurcation in the technical realization become easier.
Personally, I think the hard bifurcation is not so bad, so don’t panic.
(Wang Guan) said: of course, look at my reply, when we design the nebula’s white paper, we consider the bifurcation of the hard point of pain, and designed the nebula force NF. In addition, in the upcoming release of the Nebulas NOVA at the end of December, we will install the Nebulas core protocol component in the main line, and the establishment of NBRE (cloud block chain operation environment), let the system automatically upgrade, please pay attention.